Second fan not working?

Post by Mac Berger
Hello
I always thought that the second fan (the outer one) kicks in in
higher temperatures, but it's not.
Today I cleaned the heatsink, and the main fan was all covered in
dust, and heatsink was all blocked (wow), but the second fan and its
heatsink was clear as new! When I cleaned it and assembled back
togehter, I ran a few test - and what do you know - it never turns on!
Do You really SAW the second fan running? I mean REALLY SAW, can You
please check this for me?
Cheers
Mac Berger
_______________________________________________
LinuxR3000 mailing list
http://lists.pcxperience.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linuxr3000
Wiki at http://prinsig.se/weekee/

I have never seen the second fan run on my zv6000, I think it run when I
am doing processer intensive stuff, but only for short bursts

steven

Josh Lotherfeld

2007-03-11 00:16:28 UTC

Post by Mac Berger
Do You really SAW the second fan running? I mean REALLY SAW, can You
please check this for me?

I'm not sure the second fan is what I hear when CPU reaches 75C, but I
can assure you something really noisy happens :)
I can reach that temperature with "burnK7" CPU stress tool (32 bit here)
usually I'm far behind 60C and can hardly hear the first fan.

HTH
Josh

Mac Berger

2007-03-11 16:36:48 UTC

Post by Josh Lotherfeld

Post by Mac Berger
Do You really SAW the second fan running? I mean REALLY SAW, can You
please check this for me?

I'm not sure the second fan is what I hear when CPU reaches 75C, but I
can assure you something really noisy happens :)

<cut>

I thought so too, but when I checked - the main fan doubles the speed,
while the second one is sitting and doing nothing :)
By the way - I could max the temp to 73-75 with 100% CPU before, but after
cleaning (maan, there was a WALL of dust in the heatsink!!) the temp hits
55-58 max on 100% CPU!

Cheers
Mac Berger

Mark Carlson

2007-03-11 16:50:11 UTC

Post by Mac Berger
By the way - I could max the temp to 73-75 with 100% CPU before, but after
cleaning (maan, there was a WALL of dust in the heatsink!!) the temp hits
55-58 max on 100% CPU!

Nice, on several laptops (including my R3470) I've managed to hit the
thermal limit and the machine has shut off. If you really want to
heat up your laptop, try running the mprime (or Prime95 on windows)
"torture test." Other ways to overheat your laptop include compiling
something large while working on an unsaved document :-P

On a more serious note, taking your notebook apart and cleaning out
the heatsink fan on a regular (yearly or semi-yearly) basis is good
practice, as long as you can do it without wrecking the notebook.

-Mark

John Jason Jordan

2007-03-11 16:56:34 UTC

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 09:50:11 -0700

Post by Mark Carlson
On a more serious note, taking your notebook apart and cleaning out
the heatsink fan on a regular (yearly or semi-yearly) basis is good
practice, as long as you can do it without wrecking the notebook.

How do you get at the heatsink fan?

Mark Carlson

2007-03-11 18:22:05 UTC

Post by John Jason Jordan
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 09:50:11 -0700

How do you get at the heatsink fan?

Elementary, dear Watson.

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00212209.pdf

It usually takes me about an hour (if I'm lucky) to take the notebook
apart, clean it, and put it back together. But it is worth it if my
notebook is consistently overheating (it just overheated on me again
last week, so I'll have to do the cleaning again soon.)

That is the link for the service manual to use. Make sure to read it
first, and I'm not kidding. If you haven't done it before, you may
need to get some tools first (removing the keyboard can be a pain!)

-Mark

Mac Berger

2007-03-11 20:07:15 UTC

Mark, since You did it :) tell me - how do You remove those little
antenna-to-wificard connectors?

Cheers
Mac Berger

Mark Carlson

2007-03-11 20:12:53 UTC

Post by Mac Berger
Mark, since You did it :) tell me - how do You remove those little
antenna-to-wificard connectors?

The little wire that connects to the mini-PCI card? Pull... gently.
The connector functions similar to a snap you would find on clothing,
but with a tiny wire in the middle.

-Mark

Mac Berger

2007-03-11 22:10:23 UTC

Post by Mac Berger
Mark, since You did it :) tell me - how do You remove those little
antenna-to-wificard connectors?

The little wire that connects to the mini-PCI card? Pull... gently.
The connector functions similar to a snap you would find on clothing,
but with a tiny wire in the middle.

Hmmm... Not so gently here. When I pulled - whole little card was rising.
I tried to turn them around - and find some spot where they disconnect,
but no luck.
To be clear - those are the two antenna cables - from 'Maitenance and
Service Guide' 5.12.4 (p.5-36)
Are there only pulling involved? Maybe under a certain angle or something?

Cheers
Mac Berger

Jonathan Berry

2007-03-11 22:22:42 UTC

Post by Mac Berger
Mark, since You did it :) tell me - how do You remove those little
antenna-to-wificard connectors?

The little wire that connects to the mini-PCI card? Pull... gently.
The connector functions similar to a snap you would find on clothing,
but with a tiny wire in the middle.

Only pulling is required. I think the intruction to pull gently
should have been "try to pull gently" :-). I suggest that you take
the card out of the mini-PCI slot, then hold it in place while you
pull up on the connectors. You may have to pull with some force.

A quick question: Why are you trying to unplug the wires? You
certainly do not need to in order to clean the fans/heatsink. Only if
you *really* want to take the laptop apart, or put the card in another
computer. Note that another card may not work in this laptop as the
BIOS has a whitelist of devices that it will allow to work.

Jonathan

Mac Berger

2007-03-11 22:39:02 UTC

Post by Mac Berger
Mark, since You did it :) tell me - how do You remove those little
antenna-to-wificard connectors?

The little wire that connects to the mini-PCI card? Pull... gently.
The connector functions similar to a snap you would find on clothing,
but with a tiny wire in the middle.

Only pulling is required. I think the intruction to pull gently
should have been "try to pull gently" :-). I suggest that you take
the card out of the mini-PCI slot, then hold it in place while you
pull up on the connectors. You may have to pull with some force.
A quick question: Why are you trying to unplug the wires? You
certainly do not need to in order to clean the fans/heatsink. Only if
you *really* want to take the laptop apart, or put the card in another
computer. Note that another card may not work in this laptop as the
BIOS has a whitelist of devices that it will allow to work.

Hmmm... this goes like that:
I opened the case and saw two fans and radiators. One fan/radiator was
full of dirt (main), and the other was clean as new. If one is not working
too much - why not change them? But to get them out - I have to get the
mainboard and display out, and they are connected with those little
antenna cables.

Cheers
Mac Berger

Jonathan Berry

2007-03-11 23:13:51 UTC

Post by Mac Berger
Mark, since You did it :) tell me - how do You remove those little
antenna-to-wificard connectors?

The little wire that connects to the mini-PCI card? Pull... gently.
The connector functions similar to a snap you would find on clothing,
but with a tiny wire in the middle.

Only pulling is required. I think the intruction to pull gently
should have been "try to pull gently" :-). I suggest that you take
the card out of the mini-PCI slot, then hold it in place while you
pull up on the connectors. You may have to pull with some force.
A quick question: Why are you trying to unplug the wires? You
certainly do not need to in order to clean the fans/heatsink. Only if
you *really* want to take the laptop apart, or put the card in another
computer. Note that another card may not work in this laptop as the
BIOS has a whitelist of devices that it will allow to work.

I opened the case and saw two fans and radiators. One fan/radiator was
full of dirt (main), and the other was clean as new. If one is not working
too much - why not change them? But to get them out - I have to get the
mainboard and display out, and they are connected with those little
antenna cables.

That was my point, you should not need to take the mainboard out, and
certainly not the display, to get to the fans and heatsink. There
should be a section of the bottom cover that comes off that just
covers the fan/heatsink area. Did you look at the PDF linked to
earlier in this thread?
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00212209.pdf
Check out section 5. Pages 5-22 and 5-23 specifically.

Even so, if you want to separate the display and mainboard (and put it
back together) why not just pop the wireless card out of the mini-PCI
slot? That would be much easier. You should be able to weave the
wires out of the little plastic pieces that route them from the
display to the card.

Jonathan

Mac Berger

2007-03-11 23:37:35 UTC

<cut>

Post by Jonathan Berry
That was my point, you should not need to take the mainboard out, and
certainly not the display, to get to the fans and heatsink. There
should be a section of the bottom cover that comes off that just
covers the fan/heatsink area. Did you look at the PDF linked to
earlier in this thread?
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00212209.pdf
Check out section 5. Pages 5-22 and 5-23 specifically.

Hmmm, yes, I saw the PDF, but: when you remove the termal cover - can you
remove the fans? The instructions to remove fans (pages 5-76 - 5-78) says
that You have to get the mainboard and display out. Isn't it necessary?

Post by Jonathan Berry
Even so, if you want to separate the display and mainboard (and put it
back together) why not just pop the wireless card out of the mini-PCI
slot? That would be much easier. You should be able to weave the
wires out of the little plastic pieces that route them from the
display to the card.

Hmm, I don't remember now, if the wires weren't going under something
along their way, but I'll try it if I won't be able to pull them out, as
advised in another post...

Cheers
Mac Berger

Jonathan Berry

2007-03-12 00:16:26 UTC

Okay, on looking closer I think I see the issue now. Page 5-78 shows
removing the fan *assembly* which holds both fans. The fans
themselves are attached to the fan assembly from the bottom. However
the wires that connect power to the fans are routed underneath the fan
assembly (when looking at it from the bottom). You can unscrew the
fans from the bottom (after prying off the metal that covers the fan,
they are glued down). And you can possibly unplug the fan and pull
the wires through without removing the fan assembly. The part that
might really be hard is putting them back.

Hmm, I don't remember now, if the wires weren't going under something
along their way, but I'll try it if I won't be able to pull them out, as
advised in another post...

What you really need to do is remove the screws shown on page 5-27.
To do that, you will need to remove the upper plastic cover from the
motherboard, and to do that you will need to remove the display. Just
unplugging the mini-PCI card should work just fine for doing that. It
and the upper plastic cover can go with the display.

With all that said, I think I would advise against doing what you are
trying to do (swapping the two fans). It is going to take a lot of
work and you are going to have to take your laptop practically
completely apart. And then you have to put it back together so that
it works :-). All this just to swap the fans. Not to mention, what
if the second fan does not come on because something is wrong with it?
I am not saying that is the issue, but it is possible, even if not
probable. I say just clean it really well and call it done :-).

Jonathan

Mac Berger

2007-03-12 00:39:04 UTC

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 01:16:26 +0100, Jonathan Berry <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

(...)

Post by Jonathan Berry
With all that said, I think I would advise against doing what you are
trying to do (swapping the two fans). It is going to take a lot of
work and you are going to have to take your laptop practically
completely apart. And then you have to put it back together so that
it works :-). All this just to swap the fans. Not to mention, what
if the second fan does not come on because something is wrong with it?
I am not saying that is the issue, but it is possible, even if not
probable. I say just clean it really well and call it done :-).

But I LIKE taking things apart! :D

Seriously - when I was waiting for this laptop - my friend was laughing at
me that she never saw a guy waiting for a laptop with a screwdriver :D

Cheers
Mac Berger

Jonathan Berry

2007-03-12 01:32:01 UTC

Post by Mac Berger
(...)

But I LIKE taking things apart! :D
Seriously - when I was waiting for this laptop - my friend was laughing at
me that she never saw a guy waiting for a laptop with a screwdriver :D

Well, in that case, hack away my friend :-).

Jonathan

Mac Berger

2007-03-12 13:03:54 UTC

Post by Mac Berger
(...)

But I LIKE taking things apart! :D
Seriously - when I was waiting for this laptop - my friend was laughing at
me that she never saw a guy waiting for a laptop with a screwdriver :D

Well, in that case, hack away my friend :-).

Hmmm, after looking at the pictures of those fans - I can't switch them.
The fans have wings turned in different sides.
Pity...

Cheers
Mac Berger

Mark Carlson

2007-03-11 23:20:41 UTC

Post by Mac Berger
Mark, since You did it :) tell me - how do You remove those little
antenna-to-wificard connectors?

The little wire that connects to the mini-PCI card? Pull... gently.
The connector functions similar to a snap you would find on clothing,
but with a tiny wire in the middle.

Try to get your fingernails between the connector and the board that
the connector is attached to, then use your fingernails to pop it off
like a snap on your clothes.

As for the angle to use, it is clearly indicated in the service manual
in the section you were looking at (5.12.4)

-Mark

Jonathan Berry

2007-03-11 20:47:24 UTC

Post by John Jason Jordan
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 09:50:11 -0700

How do you get at the heatsink fan?

Elementary, dear Watson.
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00212209.pdf
It usually takes me about an hour (if I'm lucky) to take the notebook
apart, clean it, and put it back together. But it is worth it if my
notebook is consistently overheating (it just overheated on me again
last week, so I'll have to do the cleaning again soon.)
That is the link for the service manual to use. Make sure to read it
first, and I'm not kidding. If you haven't done it before, you may
need to get some tools first (removing the keyboard can be a pain!)

Umm, I'm pretty sure that you should not have to remove the keyboard
to get at the heat sink. Or was that just a general statement? The
only difficult part about the keyboard is prying that plastic strip
off the top. Other than that, it's just seven screws.

Jonathan

Mark Carlson

2007-03-11 21:11:23 UTC

Post by John Jason Jordan
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 09:50:11 -0700

How do you get at the heatsink fan?

Elementary, dear Watson.
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00212209.pdf
It usually takes me about an hour (if I'm lucky) to take the notebook
apart, clean it, and put it back together. But it is worth it if my
notebook is consistently overheating (it just overheated on me again
last week, so I'll have to do the cleaning again soon.)
That is the link for the service manual to use. Make sure to read it
first, and I'm not kidding. If you haven't done it before, you may
need to get some tools first (removing the keyboard can be a pain!)

Well, would you look at that... I forgot that the last time I cleaned
the heat sink fans, I also cleaned the crumbs out from under a few
keys. I also did it shortly after cleaning another notebook I use, a
Toshiba A70 (that one takes much longer to get to, and you do have to
remove the keyboard to clean the heat sinks effectively.)

As far as the keyboard strip goes, I usually end up leaving some sort
of mark on it. I have yet to remove the plastic strip of a notebook
and not leave a mark on it.

-Mark

Mac Berger

2007-03-11 23:51:45 UTC

Post by Mac Berger
By the way - I could max the temp to 73-75 with 100% CPU before, but after
cleaning (maan, there was a WALL of dust in the heatsink!!) the temp hits
55-58 max on 100% CPU!

I'm pretty positive, that before cleaning that would hit the thermal limit
(hitting the thermal limit twice, while playing some 2D game made me clean
it in the first place), but now, running prime95 torture test for some
time set temp at stable 57 degrees :)

Cheers
Mac Berger

Ken Hughes

2007-03-11 16:52:18 UTC

Post by Mac Berger
By the way - I could max the temp to 73-75 with 100% CPU before, but
after cleaning (maan, there was a WALL of dust in the heatsink!!) the
temp hits 55-58 max on 100% CPU!

I cleaned my fan inlets out a while back and in the process removed the
heatsink. When I put it back on I used some Arctic Silver thermal
compound and have found the CPU runs about 3-5 degrees, plus takes much
longer when running at full speed to get up to the temp where the fans
really kick in.

Ken

JT Moree

2007-03-12 02:52:04 UTC