Filesystem Errors?

[John Jason Jordan]

Compaq R3240, using Ubuntu Dapper AMD-64

I have been using Ubuntu AMD-64 since Breezy, starting over a year ago.
At first I tried Suse, then Mandriva, but only for a week or two each.
Since then I have had nothing but Ubuntu, upgrading each time shortly
after the new release came out.

Since the very beginning I have had filesystem problems. Now, Ubuntu is
set up to force a fsck on every 30th boot. Those usually go fine. But
in between I am constantly getting corruption. Luckily, fsck seems to
be pretty good at fixing things. In contrast, I have used NTFS on
Windows NT/2000 computers since I built my first NT computer in
October, 1993. NTFS has *never* given me a corrupted filesystem.

A couple months ago, in order to gain better speed, I swapped out the
original 60 GB hard disk that came with this computer for a new
ultra-fast 80 GB hard disk. However, the filesystem corruption problems
continue. In other words, the problem is evidently not in the hard
disk. It may be in the controller or its driver, however.

About a month ago I started a course in Phonetics where the textbook
comes with a CD full of sound clips. I have never had a problem with
the CD/DVD R+W drive in this computer, but when I insert this CD some
of the folders do not appear. I know the folders are there, because I
see them when I mount the CD in a drive in a Windows computer at the
university's computer lab. Today I tried to access a sound file on the
CD where the entire folder is not visible. The CD comes with html files
that contain links to the sound files, so I was able to determine
exactly the name of the file. Using Nautilus I did a search for that
file and it appeared fine. But the folder it is in does not appear.
This is really bizarre.

So I am posting this hoping that someone here has a clue what might be
going on. Has anyone else experienced problems like this? Does anyone
suspect (as I do) that the missing folders and the filesystem
corruption are related?

[Rudolph Pienaar]

I have been running gentoo AMD-64 on my R3000Z from the get go (about two
years now). About four months ago I began stumbling across filesystem
problems.

In my case, I suspect hardware - which in fact is what I think might be
happening to you.

First, what filesystem are you using? You mentioned Ubuntu so I'm going to
guess ext3?

Post by John Jason Jordan
In contrast, I have used NTFS on
Windows NT/2000 computers since I built my first NT computer in
October, 1993. NTFS has *never* given me a corrupted filesystem.

That doesn't really mean anything. I have used reiserfs on various laptops,
servers, and workstations and never experienced corrupted filesystems.

A more pertinent question would be, "Have you used NTFS on this particular
hardware?"

Anyway, a discussion of NTFS vs ext3 vs reiserfs vs whatever is probably
off-topic, but I think it's safe to say that from a technology perspective
they are all, on average, equally good.

Post by John Jason Jordan
A couple months ago, in order to gain better speed, I swapped out the
original 60 GB hard disk that came with this computer for a new
ultra-fast 80 GB hard disk. However, the filesystem corruption problems
continue. In other words, the problem is evidently not in the hard
disk. It may be in the controller or its driver, however.

A-ha! You might have hit on something there. It might very well be the
controller. FWIW, a faster hard drive in a laptop is usually more "fragile",
too. In otherwords, if you experience issues that you suspect are hardware
related, swapping out for a slower drive is usually better.

Post by John Jason Jordan
So I am posting this hoping that someone here has a clue what might be
going on. Has anyone else experienced problems like this? Does anyone
suspect (as I do) that the missing folders and the filesystem
corruption are related?

Quite likely they are. Try keeping an eye on your system logs (as root, "tail
-f /var/log/messages") in a console. See if you can re-create the filesystem
weirdness (say popping in a CD and browse in a file browser) and check if any
noise appears in the logs, in particular any errors about fileseek/access
on /dev/hdc (for example). If you do, it's a good indication of h/w issues...
(or of course, the CD might be damaged, but I guess that's a h/w issue, too).
Try using other CDs. Try also doing a "find /" as root - this will list every
single file on your harddrive and is also a quick-and-dirty way to see if any
files are sitting on top of bad clusters/nodes/whatever.

Cheers
-=R

[John Jason Jordan]

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:25:34 -0400

Post by Rudolph Pienaar
I have been running gentoo AMD-64 on my R3000Z from the get go (about two
years now). About four months ago I began stumbling across filesystem
problems.
In my case, I suspect hardware - which in fact is what I think might be
happening to you.
First, what filesystem are you using? You mentioned Ubuntu so I'm going to
guess ext3?

Yes, ext3. During the upgrade to Dapper from Breezy I did a clean
install and attempted Reiserfs. However, Ubuntu doesn't like to install
on Reiserfs and it borked. Since I don't need any of the features for
which Reiserfs is touted as being better, I have stuck to ext3.

Post by Rudolph Pienaar

Post by John Jason Jordan
In contrast, I have used NTFS on
Windows NT/2000 computers since I built my first NT computer in
October, 1993. NTFS has *never* given me a corrupted filesystem.

That doesn't really mean anything. I have used reiserfs on various laptops,
servers, and workstations and never experienced corrupted filesystems.
A more pertinent question would be, "Have you used NTFS on this particular
hardware?"

Ah! A superb question sir! Because if the answer were yes, and if NTFS
never had a problem on this hardware, we'd know it was a filesystem
bug.

Regrettably, the answer is no. The first thing I did after taking
delivery of this laptop (brand new from HP), was to wipe the hard disk
and install Linux. It has never run Windows of any variety. Hence we
cannot rule out hardware. Except that the problem occurred with the
original hard disk and the replacement, so it's safe to assume it's not
the hard disk. Could be whatever electronics the controller depends on,
though. Also could be whatever driver Linux is using.

Post by Rudolph Pienaar
Anyway, a discussion of NTFS vs ext3 vs reiserfs vs whatever is probably
off-topic, but I think it's safe to say that from a technology perspective
they are all, on average, equally good.

I didn't mean to get into an OS war. I only meant that if there is an
issue with ext3 ... wait, I'm not sure why I said that. Henceforth in
this thread, let's drop this issue. Please pretend I never said it.

Post by Rudolph Pienaar

Post by John Jason Jordan
A couple months ago, in order to gain better speed, I swapped out the
original 60 GB hard disk that came with this computer for a new
ultra-fast 80 GB hard disk. However, the filesystem corruption problems
continue. In other words, the problem is evidently not in the hard
disk. It may be in the controller or its driver, however.

A-ha! You might have hit on something there. It might very well be the
controller. FWIW, a faster hard drive in a laptop is usually more "fragile",
too. In otherwords, if you experience issues that you suspect are hardware
related, swapping out for a slower drive is usually better.

But the problem occurred with the original hard drive as well. Hence I
conclude that the hard disk is not the problem.

Post by Rudolph Pienaar

Post by John Jason Jordan
So I am posting this hoping that someone here has a clue what might be
going on. Has anyone else experienced problems like this? Does anyone
suspect (as I do) that the missing folders and the filesystem
corruption are related?

Quite likely they are. Try keeping an eye on your system logs (as root, "tail
-f /var/log/messages") in a console. See if you can re-create the filesystem
weirdness (say popping in a CD and browse in a file browser) and check if any
noise appears in the logs, in particular any errors about fileseek/access
on /dev/hdc (for example). If you do, it's a good indication of h/w issues...
(or of course, the CD might be damaged, but I guess that's a h/w issue, too).
Try using other CDs. Try also doing a "find /" as root - this will list every
single file on your harddrive and is also a quick-and-dirty way to see if any
files are sitting on top of bad clusters/nodes/whatever.

I have saved your suggestion "tail -f /var/log/messages" and will check
it out after doing some CD mounts and browser accesses.

As for "find," that I have already tried. The results were weird. For
example, a folder that does not appear in Nautilus, or Konqueror, Xfe,
Thunar, Endeavour2 or Krusader *does* appear when I do a Find in
Nautilus. That is, if I know the name of a file that I think is in the
"missing" folder, and I search for it with Nautilus, the file appears
in the search window, complete with its path, and the path shows the
missing folder. Furthermore, I can drag/copy the files from the Find window
to another folder, and thereafter they appear fine in the other folder.
That is just plain weird. I'd suspect Nautilus, but I get exactly the
same results from the other file browsers. Weirder still, the command
line yields the same results. So it's not the GUI. It's something
deeper.

Thanks for your observations and suggestions. Still working on it!

[Constantine 'Gus' Fantanas]

Post by John Jason Jordan
...
Regrettably, the answer is no. The first thing I did after taking
delivery of this laptop (brand new from HP), was to wipe the hard disk
and install Linux. It has never run Windows of any variety. Hence we
cannot rule out hardware. Except that the problem occurred with the
original hard disk and the replacement, so it's safe to assume it's not
the hard disk. Could be whatever electronics the controller depends on,
though. Also could be whatever driver Linux is using.

--Just a thought. If you have only run Linux on this laptop, did you
upgrade the BIOS? I think the BIOS can be upgraded only in Windows.
Which version of BIOS are you running?

[John Jason Jordan]

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 01:56:14 -0400

Post by Constantine 'Gus' Fantanas

Post by John Jason Jordan
...
Regrettably, the answer is no. The first thing I did after taking
delivery of this laptop (brand new from HP), was to wipe the hard disk
and install Linux. It has never run Windows of any variety. Hence we
cannot rule out hardware. Except that the problem occurred with the
original hard disk and the replacement, so it's safe to assume it's not
the hard disk. Could be whatever electronics the controller depends on,
though. Also could be whatever driver Linux is using.

--Just a thought. If you have only run Linux on this laptop, did you
upgrade the BIOS? I think the BIOS can be upgraded only in Windows.
Which version of BIOS are you running?

I have no idea. Is there a way to figure that out?

[Ben West]

there should be information on the wiki about that -- while the wiki has
probabably not been edited in some time, the information for the r3000
should stil be completely relevant, especially as related to BIOS upgrades.
it's http://prinsig.se/weekee just like in the list sig.

Post by John Jason Jordan
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 01:56:14 -0400

Post by Constantine 'Gus' Fantanas

Post by John Jason Jordan
...
Regrettably, the answer is no. The first thing I did after taking
delivery of this laptop (brand new from HP), was to wipe the hard disk
and install Linux. It has never run Windows of any variety. Hence we
cannot rule out hardware. Except that the problem occurred with the
original hard disk and the replacement, so it's safe to assume it's

not

Post by Constantine 'Gus' Fantanas

Post by John Jason Jordan
the hard disk. Could be whatever electronics the controller depends

on,

Post by Constantine 'Gus' Fantanas

Post by John Jason Jordan
though. Also could be whatever driver Linux is using.

--Just a thought. If you have only run Linux on this laptop, did you
upgrade the BIOS? I think the BIOS can be upgraded only in Windows.
Which version of BIOS are you running?

I have no idea. Is there a way to figure that out?
_______________________________________________
LinuxR3000 mailing list
http://lists.pcxperience.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linuxr3000
Wiki at http://prinsig.se/weekee/

[Constantine 'Gus' Fantanas]

Post by John Jason Jordan
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 01:56:14 -0400

Post by Constantine 'Gus' Fantanas

Post by John Jason Jordan
...
Regrettably, the answer is no. The first thing I did after taking
delivery of this laptop (brand new from HP), was to wipe the hard disk
and install Linux. It has never run Windows of any variety. Hence we
cannot rule out hardware. Except that the problem occurred with the
original hard disk and the replacement, so it's safe to assume it's not
the hard disk. Could be whatever electronics the controller depends on,
though. Also could be whatever driver Linux is using.

--Just a thought. If you have only run Linux on this laptop, did you
upgrade the BIOS? I think the BIOS can be upgraded only in Windows.
Which version of BIOS are you running?

I have no idea. Is there a way to figure that out?

--Right after you power up your laptop and BEFORE the boot loader comes
up, press F10; it will take you right to the BIOS and show you a lot of
details about the machine, among them the BIOS version. At least,
that's what happens on my machine. There is also a pertinent message
which is displayed after powering up and before the boot loader is
activated. You should press F10 while that message is displayed.

[John Jason Jordan]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 00:02:52 -0400

Post by Constantine 'Gus' Fantanas
--Right after you power up your laptop and BEFORE the boot loader comes
up, press F10; it will take you right to the BIOS and show you a lot of
details about the machine, among them the BIOS version. At least,
that's what happens on my machine. There is also a pertinent message
which is displayed after powering up and before the boot loader is
activated. You should press F10 while that message is displayed.

Thanks! I guess I could have figured that out for myself if I had read
the startup screen. It says to hit F10. Duh!

Well, here is the info on my BIOS, etc:

Notebook model Presario R3200
(PF153UA#ABA)
System Board ID 08A0
Processor type: AMD Athlon (tm) 64
Processor speed: 2000 MHz
System memory: 1280 MB
BIOS version: F.11
KBC version: 32.22

Now I guess I need to find out what the latest BIOS is. No point in
trying to upgrade it if it's already the latest.

[Constantine 'Gus' Fantanas]

Post by John Jason Jordan
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 00:02:52 -0400

Post by Constantine 'Gus' Fantanas
--Right after you power up your laptop and BEFORE the boot loader comes
up, press F10; it will take you right to the BIOS and show you a lot of
details about the machine, among them the BIOS version. At least,
that's what happens on my machine. There is also a pertinent message
which is displayed after powering up and before the boot loader is
activated. You should press F10 while that message is displayed.

Thanks! I guess I could have figured that out for myself if I had read
the startup screen. It says to hit F10. Duh!
Notebook model Presario R3200
(PF153UA#ABA)
System Board ID 08A0
Processor type: AMD Athlon (tm) 64
Processor speed: 2000 MHz
System memory: 1280 MB
BIOS version: F.11
KBC version: 32.22
Now I guess I need to find out what the latest BIOS is. No point in
trying to upgrade it if it's already the latest.

--I can tell you your BIOS is ancient. HP changed the BIOS for this
laptop many times (I wonder why). Your BIOS should be upgraded to F35
or F37. I think the newest BIOS is F37, but because there were some
issues with it (I don't remember what), I decided to stay with the F35.
You probably have never upgraded your BIOS, which may be the cause of a
lot of problems.

[John Jason Jordan]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:17:06 -0400

Post by Constantine 'Gus' Fantanas

Post by John Jason Jordan
BIOS version: F.11
Now I guess I need to find out what the latest BIOS is. No point in
trying to upgrade it if it's already the latest.

--I can tell you your BIOS is ancient. HP changed the BIOS for this
laptop many times (I wonder why). Your BIOS should be upgraded to F35
or F37. I think the newest BIOS is F37, but because there were some
issues with it (I don't remember what), I decided to stay with the F35.
You probably have never upgraded your BIOS, which may be the cause of a
lot of problems.

OK, I will definitely upgrade the BIOS. On the wiki:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?dlc=en&lc=en&product=424074&lang=en&cc=us&docname=c00234553

It has a link to Paul Hahn's website and a link to HP. Paul's website
doesn't work, and HP gives instructions, but it doesn't list the files
for the R3000 series. It lists:

HP Compaq Business Notebook Nc4000 SP28856 Details Download
HP Compaq Business Notebook Nx5000 SP28651 Details Download
HP Compaq Business Notebook Nc6000 SP28855 Details Download
HP Compaq Mobile Workstation Nw8000 SP28370 Details Download

Any idea which file I need? And if it's not one of the above, where I can get it?

[Dan Black]

Post by John Jason Jordan
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:17:06 -0400

Post by Constantine 'Gus' Fantanas

Post by John Jason Jordan
BIOS version: F.11
Now I guess I need to find out what the latest BIOS is. No point in
trying to upgrade it if it's already the latest.

--I can tell you your BIOS is ancient. HP changed the BIOS for this
laptop many times (I wonder why). Your BIOS should be upgraded to F35
or F37. I think the newest BIOS is F37, but because there were some
issues with it (I don't remember what), I decided to stay with the F35.
You probably have never upgraded your BIOS, which may be the cause of a
lot of problems.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?dlc=en&lc=en&product=424074&lang=en&cc=us&docname=c00234553
It has a link to Paul Hahn's website and a link to HP. Paul's website
doesn't work, and HP gives instructions, but it doesn't list the files
HP Compaq Business Notebook Nc4000 SP28856 Details Download
HP Compaq Business Notebook Nx5000 SP28651 Details Download
HP Compaq Business Notebook Nc6000 SP28855 Details Download
HP Compaq Mobile Workstation Nw8000 SP28370 Details Download
Any idea which file I need? And if it's not one of the above, where I can get it?
_______________________________________________

The latest for these laptops is F.35. There is only a Windows exe file
to update the BIOS.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareDownloadIndex?softwareitem=ob-31250-1&lc=en&cc=us&os=228&tool=softwareCategory&query=presario%20r3000z&product=425558&dlc=en

[John Jason Jordan]

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:53:43 -0400

Post by Dan Black

Post by John Jason Jordan
Any idea which file I need? And if it's not one of the above, where I can get it?

The latest for these laptops is F.35. There is only a Windows exe file
to update the BIOS.
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareDownloadIndex?softwareitem=ob-31250-1&lc=en&cc=us&os=228&tool=softwareCategory&query=presario%20r3000z&product=425558&dlc=en

OK, I downloaded it. Since it is a Windows file I guess I can't use the
instructions in the link on the wiki. I have only Ubuntu amd-64 Dapper
on this computer. Surely there is a way to use it to upgrade the BIOS.